Decarbonizing a Future for All

In this episode we chat with Isabel, a Climate Campaigner for Wilderness Committee with a long track record in housing, labour, social, and environmental justice work. She shares insights on intersectional environmentalism and how we can build a decarbonized future that helps everyone in our communities, along with future generations, thrive.

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Claire 0:00

Seeds of Hope is a podcast created on the Lekwungen territory, represented today by Esquimalt and Songhese First Nations. We feature special edition episodes at Shianu Territory and shared Musqueams, Quahomish, and Slay Latooth Land. As uninvited guests, we hold with immense gratitude and respect the privilege it is to share and cultivate a climate-conscious community here on what we colonially refer to as Vancouver Island. Hi, I'm your host, Claire Marshall, and welcome to the Seeds of Hope Climate Storytelling podcast. I'm going around my community to chat with folks who are passionate about all things climate, from advocating for more sustainable environmental practices to enhancing well-being through arts-based activities. Today we're tuning in to a conversation with Isabel from Wilderness Committee. Isabel's a climate campaigner who shares her story on how she got started in youth activism and how she dedicates her working days to building a decarbonized world centered deeply around social and environmental justice.

Isabel 0:52

Hi everyone, thanks for having me. My name is Isabel. I use she and her pronouns and I'm a climate campaigner with the Wilderness Committee. Um I was originally from the Boston area and I moved out here for university. Um yeah, and now I'm working on campaigns towards ending the fossil fuel industry industry expansion um and towards a climate just world. So yeah, that's a little bit.

Claire 1:20

I see that you're from the US, just like me, and you made the move to study and now work in what we colonially refer to as Canada. I'd love to hear more about your story, what brought you here, and what made you stay as part of your climate work. Was it a hard decision or did it feel natural? I know that's a lot of questions.

Isabel 1:36

Yeah, there's there's a lot of pieces there. Um, but yeah, I think the main reason I moved out here was um for university. I went to UBC where I studied international relations. Um I moved out during the pandemic, so it was a bit of a strange time, but I yeah, quickly just really enjoyed the city and getting time to spend having yeah, just spending time here. Um and yeah, staying I think was not that hard a decision for me. Um just like through my work and through school and just the communities and people I'd met, like yeah, the city felt like home, and so there, yeah, when I was looking for work and after I graduated, um yeah, I felt it wasn't a hard choice to stay, and I was already deep pretty deeply involved in a lot of the movements here, and so yeah, I I felt pretty invested in like continuing to work and um yeah, just stay here. So I didn't know anyone actually out here. Um I do have family in like the San Francisco area and the LA area, so I'd spent time kind of on the West Coast. Um my brother lives in San Francisco now, and so like I yeah, I love the West Coast, but I didn't have specific connections or anything. I honestly just really was ready to move away from home and be somewhere different, and yeah, I think the opportunity just came up, everything kind of lined up programs-wise, scholarships-wise, so I just yeah, went for it. What was your program in school? Um, I studied international relations and did a minor in Spanish as well. Are you just like here now? Is this kind of home for you? It is home for me uh until my work permit kicks me out. So yeah, that is something I'll have to think about with like permanent residency and just like things like that, but here for now.

Claire 3:29

Is the West Coast the best coast? What do you say? I mean there are differences.

Isabel 3:34

There are differences, but I I do like it out here. I do like the vibes are just more chill. They are, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Mountains. Mountains are mountains are very cool.

Claire 3:45

So before stepping into your current climate role, you were involved in a lot of movement spaces, student organizing, housing justice, harm reduction, Palestinian solidarity. Can you walk us through how you found your way into each of those and like what drew you into these different kind of areas of like um access and and helping people out?

Isabel 4:02

Yeah, in my in my first year, a lot of it was like online, and I was really just seeking connection in any form to my peers, to my classmates, and I had one friend in one of my classes that we kind of made friends virtually, it is possible. Um, and he was a member of the Social Justice Center at UBC, and he kind of just invited me to a meeting, and it was like online, and I went um, and I remember still the presentation, it was on housing justice, housing rights, specifically like in Vancouver, and talking about issues that were very local, um, the temporary modular housing and things like that. And I remember it was just like a really different way of learning. I think learning from peers and also just talking about issues that were really specific to the place that we were in, um, in a way that a lot of my classes weren't necessarily didn't feel as like relevant sometimes. I just think there is something really powerful about like learning by doing and learning by talking to people and learning by being in the place that you're in and um connecting with the community beyond kind of the bubble of a university. And yeah, I just remember being really inspired by that meeting, and I kept coming back, and that was kind of how I fell into a lot of the movement spaces because the three main like organizing areas with that group was housing justice, harm reduction, and international solidarity specifically around Palestine. That was kind of how I became connected with all those different areas and have kind of touched a lot of different areas through that group. Um, and yeah, that was kind of how I ended up in those spaces.

Claire 5:45

What is VTU, if you don't mind?

Isabel 5:47

Oh, yeah, uh the Vancouver Tenants Unit.

Claire 5:50

So really you felt like kind of your first sense of community being in like this new place and just like doing things hands-on versus like academia, which is just like teaching you things but not like actually putting you out there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a theme that we've uh we've also talked about just um in one of our like kind of climate and art centered um episodes where yeah, we just chatted about like what is academia missing, and I think it is missing a lot of that, like okay, here's how the environment is changing and here's how like we are fighting for a livable future, but how do we like process those emotions? And I think community and like movement spaces and like activism is such a big a part of that, like feeling like there are people doing good because if you just read the news, it's like the opposite of an activist space, it's like things are not good, yeah. But in those spaces, you're like, No, I'm actually going like door to door, yeah.

Isabel 6:38

It seems yeah, you know, yeah, and I think another thing is like it's just so powerful to be around people that are doing similar work and have similar values, and it was there, it was almost like a form of accountability to be around peers that I looked up to so much and was like, I'm honored to be working with you, and I want to keep doing that, and I want to keep showing up for you. And I think there's something so powerful about like that community that is kind of the antithesis of all the individuality that is kind of shoved down our throats all the time. Um, just in society, of like, you know, even in school, it's like you want to get a better mark than someone else, or like it's always it's very competitive, but just kind of that community-oriented way of being and way of being in relationship with other people, I think is really powerful to me.

Claire 7:23

You know, when it comes to the climate movement or any of these like activist spaces, like sometimes you I do feel like for me burnt out from like if you call it climate work, but if you call it like community work and you're still working, like you get up out of bed to like help out the people that are still doing the good fight or like being really involved and active and engaged, then I'm like, okay, I need to step up for them, not just like for climate or for like the future. Of all the work you've been a part of, is there a movement or community that's really stayed with you or shaped you the most?

Isabel 7:51

Yeah, I mean, I think the social justice center for sure is a big one. Um, we had this like motto, it was like a motto is kind of a weird word, but just like a way of organizing, I guess, and it was the how is the why. So how we do things is why we do them. We don't do things, you know, to achieve certain end or to get to a certain point. It's like we respect each other, we respect our community, we build strong relationships, we show up for each other, and by doing and that is that is the how, and that is therefore why we're doing that work. It's to build connection, build community and all these pieces, and in doing that we will achieve the world that we want to see and the ends we want to see. And I think that is always like a phrase I just come back to when I ever have those moments of just like what am I doing, or where are we doing this, or what do I do next? Even I think it can be really helpful to just come back to like how how am I doing this? Am I being a good colleague? Am I being a good neighbor? Am I showing up for my friends? Like, I think it that was a phrase that has really stuck with me from that group. Um, not to mention all the incredible people I also met through that space that continue to inspire me. Um, and so yeah, I think all the work that I did with that group has been really impactful, really powerful.

Claire 9:11

Um, yeah. There's this question I had about as someone who sometimes feels sometimes I would say more often than not, feels overwhelmed by everything that needs to be fixed about our world from housing, climate, justice, liberation, it can feel hard to know for me where to focus. And in your experience, is it more effective or sustainable to choose one area and dig deep into that, like maybe what you're doing with like your climate campaigning work, um, or to stay connected across all the movements.

Isabel 9:40

Yeah, I I totally hear that. Like it is, it is super overwhelming. Um, you know, and if you wanted to, you could be in a group on housing, on climate, on migrant rights, like you could be at an event every single day on a different issue, right? There's so there's so many things to care about. Um so I definitely hear that, and it is definitely overwhelming. Um But I I think for me, like I care about all of these things so much, like I couldn't just choose one. I think I would just not be being true to myself if I was to kind of just say, you know, it's climate or nothing kind of thing, because the climate doesn't stop at our doorstep. It it is part of housing justice, it's part of labor justice, it's part of migrant justice, and so I think the intersection of these issues is almost the most interesting like point to me, and I think it's kind of where we come to the the best ideas and the best solutions for moving forward, and so yeah, I think continuing continuing to build cross-movement solidarity is is really important, and I'm yeah, I love to hear what housing groups think about certain policies and how can that inform what I'm advocating for. And so, yeah, I I I firmly believe that we are we are stronger together, and so I love staying connected across all the different movements and showing up for showing up for Palestine, showing up for indigenous rights. Like, and I think that also speaks to like just when I think about the future and like what would the future that we want to work towards be. Like I I don't like if we hit emissions reductions targets but we're still bombing Gaza, or you know, we haven't, or we've trampled indigenous rights in the process, like that's not a win to me. That's that's not a just it's just not. And so I don't yeah, I want to work towards a world with all of these pieces incorporated, with free Palestine, with land back, with housing for everyone. So they're all connected, and so yeah, I think just seeing those connections and continuing to work towards a world where all of those pieces are accounted for, and yeah, I think that is kind of what inspires me. So yeah.

Claire 12:00

I think there's like a good balance that we can seek to find of like staying engaged and staying involved in like various movements, and like you said, yeah, what's climate work without like human work? Like, and that's kind of at the core of what I think we should be doing as climate activists is like engaging with humans and trying to make our lives better. We don't want to just live, like we want to thrive and like we want to like have a like a really beautiful future and we want to like feel really connected to our neighbors. We're not just trying to like meet emissions targets, like you said, like that's not the end goal. The end goal is like taking care of one another, yes. Which seems easy enough, doesn't it? Yeah, but what's so hard? I don't know. Money, capitalism. Um amazing. Well, not amazing, but I I I think that's a really good reflection. So let's talk about your climate campaigning work. Decarbonization is a word we hear a lot, but what does it actually mean in practice? And what does it look like when a city or region is trying to decarbonize?

Isabel 12:51

Yeah, decarbonization is a big, kind of scary, weird, wonky word. Um I think for me, it just means moving towards reducing our reliance on fossil fuels until it's basically nothing towards until it's zero. Um, and when we're talking about like a city or a region that's trying to do that, like we're thinking about all the systems that rely on fossil fuels, whether that's buildings, transit systems, um, and how do we move away from that, increase efficiency, but also an important part is we're not just replacing one for one with electrification to gas, right? There's also has to be a reduction piece where we are building more efficient systems but also reducing our use of just energy in general. Yeah, that's kind of how I would think about a place that's trying to decarbonize, it's reducing that reliance, and till eventually, right, the impact of that would be um that we're no longer expanding fossil fuels because we don't need them, because our society society doesn't run on them.

Claire 13:49

That's a good answer, and it makes me think of, you know, I think growing up I would hear like reduce, reuse, recycle, like the three R's, but towards the end of my college degree, I started like hearing reducing and just like actually not using um as much energy. Like I don't really hear a lot of talk on that, like at a municipal level. You do just see people bragging about like L uh L E D or LEED certified buildings, or you see people like talking about um you see on buses, you know, and even like airports will be like, oh, we're like a carbon neutral. Yeah. I don't know if any airport's carbon neutral, but I think there's like one in Dallas that really brags about being like a more green airport. But I don't really hear a lot of like on the on the ground talk about like really reducing. Like, do you do you see that in like the spaces that you're working with or that you're advocating? Like, what would that look like to reduce or like advocate for reducing our energy usage?

Isabel 14:39

Yeah, I think it's it's a tough question. I I would say, yeah, I don't think I see it enough for sure. Like, I think a lot of the focus is oftentimes on like, wow, look how many EVs there are on the road, or you know, like you said, lead certification and things like that, which are just swapping and not that reduction piece. I think like one example of how we could be doing this is expanding like transit systems and um fair fee transit as well, so that more people are able to use transit, and in doing so, we just take cars off the road. That's less vehicles, that's more person per vehicle. Um, and that is a way of just overall reduction because less people are driving, there's less cars. It's not all just we just went to EVs instead, right? It's actually taking the vehicle off the road. Um, so I think that that's one example of like how we could actually be um reducing and that this is like that's very um like city focused, like right with like public transportation.

Claire 15:41

I'm like very curious. And I do know that like cities are I actually don't know the statistics, maybe you know a bit better than I probably you do, but cities are definitely like leading in terms of like our energy use and uh how we're like impacting climate change, but like in rural communities, like what is that? Yeah, do you like have an idea of what that would look like?

Isabel 15:56

Yeah, no, that's a that's an such an important point. Never leave the rural communities behind for sure. Um I think expanding like inner city, inner regional transit systems can can be part of that. Um we certainly don't see enough rail, inner city buses, especially like you know, even not super far rural communities, but like even to suburbs and things like that. So I think expanding transit options there can still be, you know, a component to that and should be a component to transit reform. Um so yeah, I think like that is probably the biggest thing is just like building out those systems so that they exist for people. Um and talking to rural communities about like what routes are most important to you, what do you need access to faster, and like how can we um build systems to make that work. So yeah, I think that's that is a very important piece of transit reform for sure.

Claire 17:00

Yeah, I know we're talking about decarbonization in the fossil fuel industry, but that also like brings up you know accessibility, like people need to get to hospitals and people need to access services is that oftentimes like cities have such a higher conversation concentration of those services. Um so not only yeah, if we can like bring more sustainable forms of transportation, it also like increases accessibility to definitely services that people need. So that kind of like talks like that ties into you know, it's all connected, it's not just like one thing or the other, and oftentimes making like environmental, like positive environmental impacts like does help social justice issues and initiatives. I'm curious about who are key players in the decarbonization process. Are we talking about municipal governments or federal governments, industry, communities? Who has power and who's being left out?

Isabel 17:45

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone has a role. A lot of the work that I do is focused on governments, whether it's municipal nations as well, um, federal, provincial, um, because governments kind of set the policy and set the goals and set the targets, and in theory can regulate industry and have power over industry. Government can regulate and set targets that won't allow industry to continue to expand, and they can say no to projects, like they actually have the power to say no. Um, and so a lot of the advocacy work we do is focused around policy changes, being involved in environmental assessment processes, and really working at that level because yeah, we do need that system-wide change, and so well, yes, communities absolutely have a role. It's great if you and I want to get hop on our bikes instead of get in a car, um, but at the end of the day, like the reduction in emissions that we need to see is at such a grander scale than just anything that any one person can do, and so that is why we really need to be focused on governments that can set policies that will actually have these broad sweeping changes that will meaningfully reduce our emissions. So that is why like a lot of the work we do focuses on all levels of government because they all kind of control different pieces, whether that's building regulations, zoning regulations, whether that's regulating industry, like the fossil fuel industry, um, you know, assessing projects and things like that. And so, yeah, everyone kind of has a different set of powers and control over the decarbonization process transition. A lot of the work we do will be focused on government because of that need for very broad and society-wide change.

Claire 19:41

Is your work with as a climate campaigner with Wilderness Committee, is that like, are you really engaging with the British Columbian uh provincial government or are you engaging with federal government as well?

Isabel 19:52

I mean most of the work that I would do is directed towards the provincial government because a lot of like the environmental assessment process for new um fossil fuel projects like liquefied natural gas facilities and pipelines, um, a lot of that is regulated by the provincial government. They do the environmental assessments, they approve or they can say no to projects. And so that, yeah, so that is why like a lot of my focus is on that, but also paying attention to what is happening um federally, and you know, our new prime minister has been very clear that he supports conventional energy. We are certainly paying attention at the federal level as well, but in terms of like how we can engage our supporters and how they can be involved, um, it is more helpful usually to focus on the provincial level.

Claire 20:42

Can I ask, what is conventional inner energy?

Isabel 20:45

Why why uh oh oil and gas.

Claire 20:47

Oil and gas. Okay, that's a good reason it's called conventional.

Isabel 20:51

I mean I think it's convenient, it's also kind of like a less, I think oil and gas maybe people have a more adverse reaction to. Conventional makes it just sound like pretty neutral.

Claire 21:02

Like it's the thing. It's just it's just what we do.

Isabel 21:05

Like, come on.

Claire 21:06

That's the conventional method.

Isabel 21:08

Yeah, it's it's a misnomer. Let's call it what it is. It's false of fuels, it's fracked gas, it's yeah.

Claire 21:13

So and not to put you on the spot, I know this wasn't like in the questions, but could you do you have like a kind of clear definition if you if I was like an eighth grader learning about fracking? Like, is there how would you describe that to me?

Isabel 21:26

Oh man, no, it's a good question. Um, fracking is a way of extracting natural gas, and natural gas is a greenhouse gas. It's mostly methane, which is an extremely potent greenhouse gas. I think it's something like 80 times more potent than carbon dioxide, which is the one we hear about the most as a greenhouse gas. Kind of the very high level basics of like how fracking works. Basically, it is there's like a mix, there's this fracking fluid, it's a mix of like a ton of toxic chemicals. A lot of fresh water gets used in this process and is shot into the ground at a really high pressure to crack the ground and release natural gas into which then is like compressed into pipelines, goes to these facilities where it is I think it's cool to be liquefied as liquefied natural gas, transported and then used as fuel.

Claire 22:25

Yeah, I don't know what I thought, but I thought it was like changing it from and maybe that kind of is what you're saying, like changing it from like one element or substance to like a different kind that we like use for maybe that's kind of what you're saying, but I didn't like really picture like the ground, cracking. Yeah, yeah. That's wild. Like what are the alternatives?

Isabel 22:45

Yeah, renewables. We love renewables. Um, you know, there's hydropower, which is a lot of the power here in BC. Um there's also solar, wind. Um, the government did approve nine new wind projects, they are still expanding. Fossil fuels at the same time, those are kind of like the alternative energy sources, and BC has huge wind potential. Um, yeah, like I said, we're mostly running on hydro, so it is possible we can do it if we continue to invest in more. Imagine what we could do instead of locking ourselves into fossil fuel projects that will probably be stranded assets pretty soon anyway.

Claire 23:24

So do you know if there's statistics on like if there's trajectories or if they've like done any data maps that show if they are currently accepting like these wind energy um do you call them farms or like wind farms? Um if they're like also accepting that and they're also at the same time accepting these like conventional um oil and gas industry permits, um, are are there like do we have at least a positive like correlation between like they're accepting more of these more sustainable forms of energy versus like and they're accepting less of these conventional methods, or is that just not yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily like a it's not like a one-for-one, like one wind farm doesn't equal one fossil fuel project.

Isabel 24:06

So yeah, I don't necessarily know if there's like a comparison and like as long as you're still approving fossil fuels, it doesn't really matter. I mean it matters, it it's important to be building out renewables, but whether you know the gas is being burned here or anywhere else in the world, like the climate doesn't know borders.

Claire 24:25

Well, thank you for explaining it to me because sometimes as someone who is more of a wildlife person and I really like talk about like birds and ecosystems and marine biology and and uh anything like animals gets me really excited, and so coming into climate like later on in life, like climate science, um yeah, it can be kind of daunting because it is like definitely big ideas to understand and like very complex um images and visuals to understand, like even with fracking and um all the ways that like we go from what we call like natural gas, like into like a usable kind of energy source. Like it's really complex method.

Isabel 25:03

Yeah, no, totally. And I'm all I'm not like I don't have a science background, and so yeah, a lot of a lot of the work for me is trying to kind of translate that knowledge of like these are pretty technical things, and like how do we communicate that to people in a way that doesn't feel daunting, and like that we feel like we can talk about it because like we should be able to talk about it, we should be able to talk about fracking, but there is kind of like this barrier of like what does that even mean, and it's explained in these really complex ways, and so yeah, even for me, like it's taken a lot of reading, and I'm still still learning all the time, but just continually trying to like think of ways to explain things in a way that is accessible and allows people to feel empowered to talk about issues that you know they don't you don't need a degree to talk about.

Claire 25:46

So I'm and I think that that's pretty strategic that by from their end in terms of you know not really making it accessible for a general public to understand or see or be a part of. And I think that that's seen throughout like so many forms of government and systems, and um it's caused a lot of like problems and just like othering kind of this like we can't be a part of the solution even though it affects us because they've othered us by like leaving us out of the conversation and out of the like attainability of even knowing what's going on. Definitely. So I think you're doing good work to to try to bridge that and be like, haha, I try. I'm actually teaching people what this means and like how we can be a part of that solution. Well, I said now onto the fossil fuel industry. I think we're kind of already on it. It's huge, messy, and can feel abstract. And when people say or it can feel abstract when people say we need to end fossil fuels, I was wondering if we could break it down just like a little bit more when we say the fossil fuel industry. Are we talking about oil companies, utilities, governments? We kind of already talked a little bit about this, but yeah, when we say fossil fuel industry.

Isabel 26:52

Yeah, I think we're mostly talking about yeah, so these are these are companies, but there's also all the other companies that are involved in like the process of building out fossil fuels, whether that's construction of pipelines, whether that's setting up the fracking sites, whether that's the financing um side of things that makes these projects possible. All of those pieces contribute to the fossil fuel industry as a whole. Um so I think yeah, those are kind of like the main players that we're that we're focused on in talking about when we talk about them.

Claire 27:23

I'm just like curious, whenever we're talking, when we're talking about the fossil fuel industry and climate, um, would you have like any kind of clear obviously there's a clear link to those things, 100%, but if you were summing it up again to someone like who didn't really know exactly firsthand like how these are connected, what are these like conventional methods like oil and gas doing to to change our climate? Like how are those connected?

Isabel 27:48

We're burning fossil fuels at an unprecedented rate. Um and this is raising carbon dioxide levels in the environment to a rate that we just have never seen before, and that's kind of the human the human element of it because there are natural fluctuations. It is at a level that is beyond those natural kind of variations, um, and that contributes to global warming and overall rising of temperatures. Um, and that is why we see like more extreme weather events, and it's not that we haven't always had like heat waves or hotter times, but it's that they become more frequent and more intense with the changing environment. And so that is why we are constantly seeing like record-breaking years on temperature and like these fire seasons that are increasingly um stronger, worse, and so forth. It's like it's not that they haven't always happened, it's not like climate change is like a match or something, but it just makes it more intense, um, prolongs it. It means that you know it's drier beforehand, which means fires burn more, it's it's things like that.

Claire 29:01

So and I'm I'm just someone, yeah, I I like to like get down to the basics. I know it it's it's important, yeah. Just for for everyday, everyday people, you know, there definitely still people out there that maybe don't know that some things are deeply connected. So yeah, totally. I think it's helpful. Um, and so I was I was wondering what does the resistance uh to the fossil fuel industry look like today? Are we talking about policy, direct action, public education? I think you're kind of involved with like all of those things.

Isabel 29:30

Yeah, definitely all of them. All of them are important pieces. I think like on the on the policy side, um kind of what we were talking about before about just like government regulation. Um they have the power to regulate industry, to say no to projects, and um, in theory enforce that. And so pushing the government to just do their job and actually do those things is an important way to fight back against the industry. But direct action is also really important. Um I would point to frontline communities. Um, the Prince Rupert Gas Transmission, for example, was just approved and it crosses indigenous nations territories without their consent, and so there's been on-the-ground resistance there, and I encourage folks to listen to those voices, and you know, the Ganyaho Red Cherry Chiefs, the Lockheed Fire Keepers. Um, yeah, I encourage folks to support and follow along with them. So there is definitely, yeah, direct action on-the-ground resistance to these projects. Um, and that is another form of fighting back against industry. Public education is incredibly important. The majority of people in BC live in, you know, the southern part of the province and aren't aware that industry is up north and where most of the fracking happens, and aren't aware of all the impacts, the health impacts that has for the communities nearby, what that means for species, for the ecosystems, educating the public about what is happening in their province and bringing people along and countering a lot of those industry narratives out there that you know the industry loves to greenwash and say we have like the cleanest natural gas, or like, you know, they point to all these kind of weird statistics and so forth, and yeah, calling it out, calling it what it is, it's greenwashing and bringing the public along is yeah, it's a huge part of all the work.

Claire 31:19

So I still remember seeing like my first like big garbage disposal um truck that says like we're going green, and it was like supporting natural gas. Yeah. And I'm like, What what does what are you getting at there? What does that mean? Why do you think that they even like think that they can get away with that? Is because the word natural isn't like the acid, like this is a natural solution.

Isabel 31:43

I think natural gives a kind of this like air of like, this is normal, right? This is like it's a thing that's out there, so we should use it. Um so like even one small way of countering that is just calling it fract gas instead of natural gas because that more accurately describes how it is being extracted. Um, and I think it kind of helps punch a hole in that kind of veneer of like this is just kind of a benign normal thing.

Claire 32:08

Is the bell will be going to you said northwestern BC or northeastern BC? Northeast, yeah. Northeastern BC. And um yeah, what's your intention with that?

Isabel 32:16

Yeah, I think the intention is to just to get on the ground and to see fracking infrastructure. I've I've never seen it um before, and so I think it's really important if I'm gonna be campaigning on these issues to be there, but also to talk to community, talk to First Nations that are really impacted by development and just hear what the community thinks. It's yeah, I think it's more of a listening opportunity for me more than anything. Um I I don't know what it's like to live in uh in you know the area where most of this development is happening, and so I think yeah, it's really important for me to just listen and learn from people who are most directly impacted.

Claire 32:51

So yeah, what are you most like I guess like looking forward to or even like most nervous about for or is there anything that you feel like big emotions for doing this trip?

Isabel 33:01

I think I'm I am excited, but maybe a little bit nervous of just like I don't think I I mean I've just I've never been there, so I don't know if I can really like picture it or imagine it. Like I just have no real point of reference, and I'm almost like yeah, it can be it can be devastating to see like just how much we've changed and altered and impacted the land, and to know you know, there are there are studies about the really damaging health impacts of living near fracking infrastructure, and just to think about what that means for community, like it's actual people's lives we're talking about. There's been reporting about a lot of fracking-induced earthquakes that have been happening as well up north. Um, and so yeah, I think it it it's it's scary, but it's also really, really powerful, and that much emotion can be like overwhelming sometimes to just be like, wow, there's you know, I can s really see very clearly like to just yeah, to see like up front the impact so clearly is very yeah, I think it can just be very emotional. Yeah, I found that in kind of all the different areas I've worked of just like the most powerful moments are when you are actually talking to people and you're in space with them, and yeah, I think it can just it's almost scary how emotional it can be. That makes sense.

Claire 34:26

Yeah, like even doing for me field work in the interior BC um with uh bird research. I found that like whenever you're I was I went past like Lilouette and like even through William Slake into like truly like interior, um I won't say the middle of nowhere because it's somewhere and it's beautiful and I loved it there, um, but very heavily affected by wildfires and just like that feeling of being surrounded by only like charred, or I don't know if that's the right word for it, but like burnt tree, and just like for like well, I think miles, but you also think sometimes in months for miles or uh kilometers, just like into the distance. It's such a weird and um I don't know, like not to be dramatic, but like apocalyptic kind of like feeling of like this is what wildfires are a natural part of ecosystems, but like we talked about, like definitely they're increasing um due to like anthropogenic induced uh climate change and global temperature warmings. Wildfires are starting earlier, they're going longer, um, they're more intense, they're harder to put out. I think even Squamish was like had a really intense wildfire recently, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Um, and of course, like even throughout like eastern Canada, there's also been there's a right now, it won't be at the time of this podcast being released, but there's a intense heat wave like in eastern Ontario. Um it was like 42 degrees in Ontario yesterday when we were on the phone with family. That's wild, that's hot. Um I'm from the south, so I know what like 42 degrees looks like, but it's hot, and a lot of people don't have air conditioning in Ontario. Um, so that's just really wild to think about what that would look like. And yeah, so being surrounded by like wildfires or like the ghost of wildfires past is really haunting um and kind of beautiful because it's quiet, it's like very new growth, it's like a few American goldfinches around in like yellow bright plumage against this like charred burnt forest. So anyway, it's it's definitely moving, and I feel like those opportunities are like the things that we live for is like climate activists are just like being moved because I'm not moved when I see the news. I mean I am, but like there's a point where you just it's too much.

Isabel 36:42

Yeah.

Claire 36:43

And being like meeting people and like actually hearing real stories and like being surrounded by what it is you're working on, whether it's like with birds in like burnt forest or like near these like fracking industry buildings, like I imagine that'll be pretty emotional and really good work that you're doing. Okay, is there anything that you think people often misunderstand about the fossil fuel industry or decarbonization that you'd love to clarify or push back on?

Isabel 37:10

Yeah, I think the biggest thing specifically around just like climate policy in general and decarbonization. I think there is this narrative out there that a lot of politicians will run with that like climate action and affordability can't go together. Um I think a great example is like the carbon tax. Um during the last election season, it was kind of just thrown around as like axe the tax because climate action is so expensive.

Claire 37:43

They're thinking too far, or sorry, not far ahead. They're just thinking for the now, I feel like.

Isabel 37:48

They're thinking for the now, but it's also like a lot of it's it's kind of just like a political scapegoat, and it's just kind of this thing that's thrown around. It's like we're gonna work on affordability because climate, because this climate and take away this climate policy because it's too expensive, and it's like a lot of people actually got the carbon tax back in the tax credit, and so that was actually like a check for a lot of low-income folks, and so actually taking it away could be harmful for them, and it's also not a meaningful way to address the cost of living because the biggest thing people spend on is housing, and so if you were actually intentional about wanting to work on the cost of living, like talk about rent control, talk about all these other things that impact a larger portion of someone's budget and don't blame it on climate action, which can work with affordability, like something like fare-free transit is a way of making people's lives less expensive, but also reducing emissions, something like rent control or vacancy control that allows people to have more agency over where they live specifically. If we're gonna be having more heat waves and um extreme weather, like people need agency to be able to, you know, turn on the heat and or turn on the AC without like fearing about their bills being astronomically high, and there are there are ways to you know install heat pumps or build our retrofill buildings that like there are ways to make life more affordable and also work on climate at the same time. And I think they've kind of been artificially siloed by governments to say we can't do one because we have this other issue. And it's like, no, we can actually do two things at once. And there are policies that when you talk to people working in poverty reduction spaces and working in climate spaces that agree with each other and have the same ideas, and those ex solutions do exist, and we can fight both crises, which are both incredibly important and very real for people on the day-to-day. Yeah, I think there is this idea out there that like climate work uh climate action is expensive, and so therefore we have to just do it at some later unknown date. Um and that's just it's just not true. So also, I guess one more point on that is like with like fossil fuel expansion in BC with LNG exports, which we're gonna be an exporter of LNG, I think, next week, so that is sad. But um, like there are studies in the US and Australia that when they became exporters of LNG, like domestic prices went up as much as two times, even three times. And so by we'll we'll have to see what happens with BC, but there's evidence that suggests that by allowing us to export LNG that it will raise prices domestically um and make people's lives more expensive. And the government is actively choosing those policies, and so claiming that climate action and working on making life more affordable like can't go hand in hand, is just it's just not true. Um, that might have been a policy nerdy way of thinking about it, but I yeah, I think it's it's frustrating to see that and hear that in the news a lot.

Claire 41:13

Absolutely. Yeah, I think you tied in really well to like what we were even starting our conversation with about how it's not always just like we're not just like talking about climate or housing or infrastructure or affordability or access um to healthcare, even and some of these other services, like it really is all connected. I know we say that a lot, and like we use words like community a lot, so helpful maybe to like break that down. But I think you've done really well at like breaking down how connected and like collaborative we have to be when it comes to like engaging in climate activism. So I really appreciate that. But that note was uh it was an important note uh to nearly end on. But I'm just like wondering, um, well, it's called Seeds of Hope. You have it. Are you hopeful, Isabel? What a question. Are you ever have you ever been hopeful?

Isabel 42:05

Have I ever been hopeful? I mean, I think the answer has to be yes. Like, I I don't think we'd be here if we didn't have some hope that things could be better. Um It's hard. It is so hard to be hopeful, especially when it just feels like the government continually moves in the wrong direction, whether that's on immigration or whether that's on, you know, climate, like on all issues, it it often feels like I I'm often wringing my hands. I'll say that for sure. Not to be super full circle all the time, but like I think it just does come back to community and just like I'm hopeful because I have amazing colleagues and friends and people like you that I just met today, and I and I get to see people doing amazing work every day, and it's like if if they're gonna keep showing up and keep fighting, like so can I, and yeah, to to keep being full circle, like it does come back to like the how is the why. It's like okay, if I'm feeling really upset or really angry, it's like okay, how can I reach out to a friend or how can I connect with my colleague or ensure that they're feeling good in their work, and like how can we just come back to our relationships with one another? Um, and yeah, I think that is kind of where I find hope and where I find purpose is just like if if I build up the people around me and support the people around me, support my community and however that looks, we're we're doing what we can. And if I don't if I don't hold very close to my heart a vision of all the important issues to me, like yeah, I I wouldn't I couldn't do this work. Like I have to hold hope that like there is there is a future out there where you know we have meaningful climate action, where we have landback, where we have housing for everyone, where we have free Palestine, where we have all these things. To hold that because otherwise I can't, yeah. I can't, I can't, I can't do it.

Claire 44:05

I just can't. So the more I like, especially like me working in the youth climate space, like that's something that I do seem like the youth that that a lot of like the work with the Starfish Canada works with, um, are just like youth that are hopeful and are full of energy and are aerial insectivores and moving and going and like doing really exciting projects that inspire me every day. And yeah, I feel like like any times that I start to like lose that hope, other than like watching the news of something terrible happening, is whenever I start to feel disconnected. And so I think that's like really the issue is like there's that disconnect, and like once you see there's so many people out there that have like I don't want to say this similar or like the same mindset as you, like everyone has different perspectives, but like that's what's really beautiful, and that they care about different things, and like they have different skill sets to bring different uh movements to the table. That does give me hope. I'm like, this world is beautiful, diverse, and empowered, and yeah, I know that there's gotta be a way there because what else can there be? Exactly, not anything good.

Isabel 45:04

Said it beautifully.

Claire 45:05

Yeah, you said it better. You said it better. I guess another final question is like, what role do you think youth or students should play in pushing back decarbonization work or pushing forward decarbonization work, I should say?

Isabel 45:17

Yeah. I mean, I think standing up, being loud, and not listening when people tell you, like, like we were kind of talking about earlier, like this idea you have to be like a super expert, you have to know every single thing to care about something, like absolutely not. If you care even a little bit, take that and run with it and like show up and yeah, connect with your community. The idea of like a lot of climate is a lot of times framed in terms of like we have to do it for like the future generation, and I think that's absolutely true. And I hope youth continue to fight for that future, and I also hope that youth continue to fight for their grandparents and for you know all these other people that are already being impacted by climate change as well. Um and so yeah, I think just coming back to the people in your life, um, not being afraid to stand up to government, to participate in government processes that are you know often designed to be kind of exclusionary or make youth feel like they can't participate for some reason. You can, you should, you have a voice, use it, whatever that looks like for you, whether that is sending an email, showing up at a rally, like however that shows up for you, that that's important, that's valuable. Don't underestimate that.

Claire 46:31

You usually hear advocating for youth to like fight for their future and like a livable future and and future generations, and you rarely hear no youth should be fighting now for their grandparents to have like a livable environment to be in and to like have a really beautiful like end of their end of their lifetime to just like enjoy being part of this earth and to to yeah, it's for all of us, it's for all of us, and it's for now, it's not for like way far ahead. The future, yeah. Thank you for your work at the Wilderness Committee. Thank you for your climate campaign work and all of your other uh social justice movement works, and thank you for sitting on a bench waiting for me for 15 minutes. It was my honor. I'm glad you believed in me. Yes, I do, I do. That you waited around for our little crew to show up today.

Isabel 47:14

You can follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, Facebook, um at the Wilderness Committee. And if you are hearing these things and you want to take action and get involved, you can sign up for our actionalerts at the wildernesscommittee.org. Wildernesscommittee.org. To get our action alerts to figure out ways to get more involved. Um, all spectrum of ways to be involved, as simple as sending an email, signing a petition, to showing up, meeting with your MLA. We can support you at wherever you are in your activism journey. So, yeah.

Claire 47:50

Today's episode featured Isabel Sioux Zemoidzinas from Wilderness Committee. Special thanks to our camera operators, Brittany McCubbin and Emma Cole McCubbin. This podcast was created with support from Tell us Story Hive. Special thanks to the Starfish Canada for helping bring this vision to life. I'm your host, Claire Marshall. This is Seeds of Hope, and we'll catch you in the next episode.