Building Community is a Climate Solution

Today we head over to chat with Paige Hunter, 2023 Top 25 Environmentalists Under 25 award winner and Youth Environmental Changemakers Summit delegate with The Starfish Canada. Paige is now building community as Co-Lead at Sword Fern Collective, a Vancouver-based group bridging arts, culture, and climate action. She shares her journey as a youth climate advocate, from attending a UN Climate Change Conference as a Youth Delegate, to using poetry and choir to show that everyday people already care about the changing climate.

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Claire 0:00

Seeds of Hope is a podcast created on the Wokungan Territory, represented today by Esquimalt and Songhese First Nations. We feature special edition episodes at Xianu Territory and shared Musqueams, Quahomish, and Slay Latooth Land. As uninvited guests, we hold with immense gratitude and respect the privilege it is to share and cultivate a climate-conscious community here on what we colonially refer to as Vancouver Island. Hi, I'm your host, Claire Marshall, and welcome to the Seeds of Hope Climate Storytelling Podcast. I'm going around my community to chat with folks who are passionate about all things climate, from advocating for more sustainable environmental practices to enhancing well-being through arts-based activities. Today we're tuning in to a conversation with Paige Hunter, co-lead at Sword Fern Collective. We're talking to Paige about all things climate community building and how youth are working to play a deeper role as climate leaders and organizers on a city, provincial, federal, and international scale. We have Paige here. Paige, do you want to introduce yourself? Hi everyone.

Paige 0:55

Where's my camera?

Claire 0:57

So this is me. This is you.

Paige 0:59

Okay, that's me.

Claire 1:00

And that's us together.

Paige 1:03

Beautiful. Hi everyone. My name is Paige Hunter. I use she, her pronouns, and I am a climate organizer here in Vancouver.

Claire 1:09

And what I have here about you is that you're a youth climate engagement analyst, co-lead at Swarper and Collective, COP27 delegate. That's big news. Hopeful climate educator. I love that. We've been talking about hope a lot. I wonder why it's in the name. That's why. And you were also a top 25 environmentalist under 25 in Canada. In 2023? Yes, 2023. For the Starfish Canada. You were an activist starting in high school and you started advocating for accessible climate education when you became the education working group lead at SFU 350. What is FSU 350? Simon Fraser University, I'm assuming?

Paige 1:46

Yes, yeah. So it's a student-led group at SFU, and their main focus is climate action at the university. They've been at the school for more than 10 years now, and so there's been multiple generations of climate organizers who have been involved both with the student union as well as just kind of doing their own thing. And they've worked on uh successfully getting the university to divest from fossil fuels, which was a big win. That was like the biggest focus. And then what I was working on was climate education for all students, staff, and faculty. Whoa. So that's really big. It was really exciting and a huge win. And like a decade of student leadership on campus is like such an amazing um thing to have. And it's just so phenomenal that that outcome happened.

Claire 2:35

We also worked with SFU Sustainability Office.

Paige 2:38

Yes, yeah. So that was through SFU 350. We um in the climate education working group, we were working quite closely with the SFU Sustainability Office because they were working to um create curriculum for student staff and faculty about climate change that wasn't specific to like being someone in environmental studies specifically. And so you could have uh someone in business um just wanting to know more about climate change, and they would be able to just have an introductory level of knowledge and get into you know climate justice and these these topics that normally were only available to environment students or um were treated as like a special interest.

Claire 3:22

That's really cool. Yeah, that's and it's so important, it's such an interdisciplinary field that people need to realize, you know, we don't have to be climate analysts or like climate even advocates in our jobs and careers like to do climate work. Like I think everyone has a role in doing climate work right now. Absolutely. Yeah, I think most people like have the ability to be like good climate advocates or activists from like their own jobs and roles and bringing it into like their own organizations, so yeah, really interdisciplinary. Okay, you went to COP27, yes, which was in Egypt? Yes. Can you just like highlight some fangirling?

Paige 3:57

Like highlights it was such a wild experience because I went there as a student. Um, I went there as um one of two student delegates along with uh my friend Skye as a part of the SFU delegation. Um it was such a bizarre, wild, surreal experience as someone who at the time, I think I was, yeah, 23 um walking into you know a United Nations climate conference. Yes. Um and you know, you would be uh walking by uh the royal family from such and such country, or you know, I think uh there was just all these random world leaders in this room together. Um and I think it was I have so many mixed feelings about it because the the youth it was also the first time at a cop where they had like a dedicated youth space, they had like a pavilion dedicated for youth organizers. Um but at the same time uh the actual discussions, uh the rooms where the discussions were taking place were way too small. And so the youth that were there couldn't actually get into those rooms and talk about their thoughts on whatever was being discussed. I think at the time they were really talking about loss and damage and funding loss and damage and how the global north needs to fund climate resilience in the global south. Um, and a lot of you know young global south activists who have traveled so far to get to Egypt and have risked a lot in many ways, too. They've taken time out of you know their work and away from their families, um, they weren't able to access these spaces. And so I have these kind of it was a phenomenal experience. Uh it was very wild to go and and also be so inspired by all these youth from around the world, and yet also be witnessing like even when you're allowed access into these spaces which are already inaccessible, you can't actually get to where the decisions are being made.

Claire 6:00

Yeah, that's such a big point. You know, it almost feels like there's a certain amount of, and I there's maybe a different word for it other than greenwashing, but maybe like youth washing, where they're like, we're bringing youth, we're paying for youth to be involved in this. Is that kind of how it felt like it was like flashy?

Paige 6:17

It definitely did, and I think there was a lot of um I think my biggest pet peeve is someone who's like a youth organizer as well as I I work in youth engagement. The biggest pet peeve that I have and that many other youth share is like when people are telling you, oh, youth are the future, and it's you know, it's your responsibility, and you know, you guys are gonna be the leaders of tomorrow. And yet these are people that are the leaders of today telling you this, that it almost feels like oh, we're so excited for you guys to do all the work.

Claire 6:49

Yeah, absolutely.

Paige 6:50

You know, and you guys are definitely gonna be able to do something about this. And I know that the intention is is good and they're trying to be inspiring and encouraging, um, but sometimes it does uh feel like this is maybe the first time they're talking to young people in a lot of ways. Um, and that's not just at cop. You know, I see that many places. Absolutely.

Claire 7:10

And it the conversation, I feel like for me, it should be more like you we're handing over this future to you. I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's like not like not motivating us like we're like in a basketball game, like we're just trying to survive.

Paige 7:25

Yeah, and I will say there are some really phenomenal um intergenerational activists, people that really are are like um either handing over power to young people already, um, because so many youth are leading right now, um, or are just being advocates for youth and working really closely with youth. So I will say it's not all just people being like, you know, look like youth washing all the time. There are people doing great work, but um it it did feel like that at cop, especially, um, for sure.

Claire 7:55

Did you make any connections at cop that you like that felt really meaningful to you and that you still are connected with?

Paige 8:01

Yeah, it was actually quite funny. I made a lot of connections with um other students from Vancouver there. Oh, great. Which was quite funny that we went all the way to Egypt and uh to meet people from our same community. That's awesome. Um but I think everyone that I met there that I've maintained a connection with, um, you know, there's my friend Bashar, who who went to the University of British Columbia and is a phenomenal uh doing phenomenal work in like climate finance, uh, and he's done some amazing work in Bangladesh as well. Um and then my friend Skye, who was the other delegate from SFU. Um, that was the first time we'd ever met in person, was when we flew across the world together, and um she's also doing doing fantastic work, and um yeah, it was quite funny meeting so many people from my community um across the the world. I think those were those were the really special ones um that I've kept. But then I think there's also a few, um just again it's it's other youth that are doing amazing work around the world. Um there's people that are working for Greenpeace doing some amazing direct action, like it's just phenomenal what's happening when I was at cop and what's you know their work has only expanded. Yeah.

Claire 9:11

Yeah, and this is kind of like it makes me think about the recent summit that I just attended. I think you were a delegate at the Youth Environmental Change Maker Summit for the Starfish in 2024. So last year, and I was just I wasn't a delegate. I work, I work for them. So I attended a staff, but like to still be a part of that and be surrounded by people because I'm under 30, so I'm surrounded by people that are, you know, a little bit mostly younger than me, but some people are around my age. I'm I'm almost not I'm almost not under 30. Hey, treasure it while you still can. I do. I'm like, yes, I still get like Canada works money or whatever. Um so I love to still be declared a youth, but anyway, that's just like something I heard from delegates at the summit recently, which is like I think there was uh yeah, one person was just saying how excited they were to meet their online friends. And it feels like online environmental advocacy, like or climate justice advocacy, feels like it creates such a strong internet community that like when you're given opportunities like cop or the summit to like meet in person, it seems really exciting.

Paige 10:11

Yeah, it is it's incredibly exciting, and I think that um I think I was much more prepared for the Starfish Summit than I was for cop because I think with cop I uh really had there's no way to really prepare yourself even if you're you know um someone who's like a a country delegate. I think there's so much that you don't know until you get there. Um you don't necessarily know who's even gonna be there from other delegations until you're there. Um whereas yeah, with the Starfish Summit last year it was phenomenal because uh, you know, being a a winner the previous year, I'd been able to connect online with some of the other winners as well, both present and past. Um and yeah, it was so surreal going and being like, I know you like you know, like that Leonardo DiCaprio, like I I I know that's it. That's how I felt like it's all you. I was like It's like it's so cool. You're like, that's the person who does this stuff over here, and I never thought I'd ever get to see them. Exactly. And it's in especially in Canada too, where it's like it's such a big country. Yeah, and it's like if I was to go and travel and meet all these people, it is not really possible. Um whereas, you know, I think the Starfish creates these really special places for for youth to be able to do that. Um and I know that especially since the one that I went to, all of us are still friends, and some of us are like organizing together now and like trying to connect our work and like you know, it's it's stuff that wouldn't have happened.

Claire 11:34

You know, even me seeing you, I'm like, you are a real person. You do really great like climate work that I I think I follow you on LinkedIn, I follow you on like social media, um, and I follow of course Squarted Friend Collective, and I'm just like, this is radical, this is awesome. Yeah, like radical in every way, like rad. Yeah, rad, rad. Rad and radical. It's rad squared. Rad squared. Rad squared. Exactly. Okay, so you mentioned your um friend um that I'm wondering if this is like related for the stories of change about domestic climate solutions in Bangladesh. Is that related to this?

Paige 12:04

Yeah, so that project came um entirely out of Bashar's experience at COP27 um because he saw both how Bangladeshi youth as well as Bangladesh itself as a country was so seriously underrepresented in the negotiations. Like to give you an example, there were more um oil and gas lobbyists uh at COP by quite a large margin than there were delegates from the entire country of Bangladesh. Um, and so when you have this, you know, these incredibly well-funded business people pushing for stuff that is going to harm an entire country that is at risk of sea level rise among you know extreme weather and all these other things, like he felt that he needed to tell the story of where he grew up. And so he created this really epic project. Uh, one part of it was the documentary, which I was a small part of the production team, and he decided to bike um across Bangladesh for a summer and interview people that were um doing some crazy creative local solutions. Um, because the other thing that he was having an issue with is just you know big foreign aid groups coming in and you know, being like, oh, this'll work for you, but it's you know often not the best solution, you know. Um and then he also decided to create a climate atlas. So as he was interviewing all of these people, um he was mapping it all out so that people could see where these solutions were taking place. And this is like an iterative map that I believe he's still building um to just show other youth or other other you know solutionists in Bangladesh that they're not alone. You know, there's other people out there doing amazing work and you can be inspired by um your peers. Were you just uh or not just producing, producing's a big thing, but yeah, I think I was I was just essentially um most of the project was most of the documentary was either in the process of being filmed or was completed by the time I came on board. It was mostly just to secure um some funding for uh the cost that they'd incurred, you know, like camera equipment, etc. Um, so there was a really great um uh grant through SFU that we we um basically pitched it as a collaborative SFU and UBC project because at the time Bashar was at the University of British Columbia. Um and they very graciously gave us some money to support the project. So essentially that that's all I did. But uh I'm glad to be a small part of it. Yes. And I'm just so proud of all the work that he did and continues to do.

Claire 14:42

Securing funding is a major part of making the dreams come true, isn't it? Yeah, unfortunately. We I know. Unfortunately, it is the capitalist world that we live in where yeah, there are so many ideas that, like, yeah, I think that there are ways to like make your dreams come true without it. But whenever someone else like affirms that vision, like even with like this kind of podcast, like the fact that someone was like, Yeah, make that go tell climate stories. We think that this should be told. That feels like such positive. I don't know, I'm a positive affirmation girly. Yep. So I'm like, it's the the ultimate words of affirmation in terms of a love language. Exactly, exactly. So would you like be able to break down for me as someone who I'm not sure what it is, but when I see news, like I feel like I feel like there's a cop all the time. Do you know like when there's some kind of like lunar cycle that's really exciting and they're like this is happening, it's the first time in it's the only time in seven years. I feel like they say that with cops. Yeah, I'm like, what what we have a biodiversity cop? We have a climate cop. And so do you so I think I looked up what cop stands for. Yes. Do you do you know that?

Paige 15:47

Yes, I can give you a rundown of what the two of them are. So a cop is a is a conference of the parties, the parties being the countries that have signed on to whatever UN declaration there is at the time. So COP27 um is a conference of the parties who are signatories to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, and the 27th is the 27th conference that they'd had. Um, and those are held annually. The climate um the climate cops are held annually. The biodiversity conference of the parties are held every two years-ish. Uh, there was a bit of a pause, I think, during COVID, but for the most part held every two years. And the location changes. It sometimes feels a little bit like the Olympics in terms of who's hosting. Um, the last two cops have been held in um very major pro-oil and gas producing countries to the point where COP, the most recent cop, uh, the uh president of Azerbaijan said that oil was like a holy gift. Um in his opening statement. So there have been some weird tones set at the last two COPs, but I would say um, for the most part, um they're just places for people to work on the agreements in like the UNFCCCC. Like, how is each country going to implement the goals that we have set out, you know? And there's also interim conferences, like right now, as of June 25th, um, in between each climate cop. There's also uh conferences in Bonn, Germany, each year. Um those are called the subsidiary bodies, and so I'm not sure why that's the name entirely. But right now we're at SB26, which is the 26th gathering of this group of people, and this is almost like a pre-COP. So it's like, okay, halfway through the year, let's check in, let's see how we're doing, and get prepared for the big one, um, which is happening in Brazil this year, COP 30.

Claire 17:54

Yes, and I actually I was thinking about Brazil whenever you're talking about the other cops that just kind of maybe had some contradictory actions or uh comments or phrases that came from introductory speeches, because I remember reading a headline recently, like in the past few months, about how a how the Brazilian, the upcoming cop in Brazil, I think they they like cut down a lot of forests to build a facility to host cop.

Paige 18:20

Yeah, there's there's I mean it's in the same way as the Olympics, there's always a controversy in hosting an international conference. Um I think the the thing with Brazil is they're hosting it in a community that's fairly small, it's beautiful, um, but there's I think some concerns around the capacity for the venues, there's some concerns around the capacity for um where people are gonna stay. And this was also an issue in Baku as well last year. There was like not very many hotels to choose from, and so sometimes people ended up spending a lot of money just because it was only like the luxury hotel that was left, um, which is another barrier. Um and so I think that sometimes the choice of where things are gonna be held, like I believe where it is in Brazil this year is a biodiversity hotspot. Like there's a reason why they're hosting it there, but it's not necessarily a area that's accustomed to hosting like big international conferences.

Claire 19:14

Yeah. So is that one is that one climate-related or biodiversity?

Paige 19:17

That one's that one's climate related. Okay. Yeah, COP 30. Yeah, so you work as a youth policy analyst? I think it's a research. My official title is like research analyst. Research analyst. Yes, but for a youth council. Yes, yes. So I work um in children and youth affairs and environment and climate change Canada. Shout out to that's my LinkedIn bio. Did we say ECCC? ECCC. ECC represents um Yeah, so I work in the federal government, which is an interesting place to work as like a youth organizer. Um and I work primarily on um how to engage youth across Canada better in policy decisions, and I'm very fortunate and grateful to work with the um Environment and Climate Change Youth Council. So they are a group of youth age 18 to 29 who advise the Minister of Environment and the Department of Environment and Climate Change on how to improve their um projects, policies, and programs. That's really cool. Because they're, you know, I say they, us, yeah, are the generation that are, you know, acting on climate and are also gonna be the ones that are experiencing the effects of whatever decisions government makes today.

Claire 20:26

Yeah. Do you commonly like work in do you work in schools at all or how do you engage with youth?

Paige 20:31

Um a lot of it is, so a lot of it because it's you know across the country, a lot of it is virtual. Um, but we do work with a lot of um trusted allies in um communities. Uh the team that I work on has um, you know, talked to like Students Commission of Canada, for example, they're phenomenal youth engagers. Um engagers. Or, you know, all these other, you know, we'll talk to them and they know how best to talk to the youth in their community. Or um, you know, Shake Up the Establishment is also like a phenomenal group and they're really well regarded. And they actually did some um great engagement on uh the environmental education work that the federal government is working on currently right now. I don't know how much I can say on that, but you know, there's it's more like we go to people that we know are like right, um, have deep roots in like the youth communities that we want to work with. I get really stoked on it. Um I get excited that that work is happening at the federal at the federal level. Um and it's fun also being someone who is a youth working in youth engagement. I think that gives you also like a a special skill. Yes, absolutely. Where you're you know, I'm able to kind of go between the policymakers and like all the people that are um like senior public servants as well as work with youth as well and sort of help them talk to each other.

Claire 21:55

Yeah, you're a bridge person, yeah. And I think the world needs bridges, we need people. Who are bridges because, like, you know, once we get like in silos and we're like working in like our own spheres and not connecting with each other, that's how we get into this like world that we're currently in right now, which is can be very disconnected, you can feel very lonely, and that leads to things like despair and sadness and like climate grief. Uh so whenever you have like the bridge people, that is what makes people feel like their voices are being heard. So I think you're doing that. That's really cool. Yeah, I love it. We love a bridge.

Paige 22:27

I love it.

Claire 22:28

We love a bridge. We love a bridge. Podcasting is kind of a bridge. Podcasting is a bridge. I hope. I I also I I aim to be a bridge person like you. You're my bridge, you're who I want to be when I agree. Oh my god, it's changed. Okay, about that, about that. Why do I say that? Because you're really cool and you do some great work with Sword Fern Collective. First of all, I have a question. I think I put it like closer to the end on the questions I sent you, but why are we sword ferns? Why are we sword ferns?

Paige 22:56

Well, um, so I guess a little bit about Sword Fern Collective will. That would be helpful, wouldn't it? Um so Sword Fern Collective is an emotions-based community engagement organization that works to help build emotional resilience and connect people with their climate emotions through community as well as arts and culture. So it was started by um my friend Victor and I, and uh we a year ago or more now, we had um my wonderful friend Erica join our team. Um, and so the name Swordfront Collective comes from uh Victor and I, who growth who Victor and I both grew up here on you know um unseated Musqueams, Quamish and Slewotu territory for Victor. And for me, I grew up in Langley on unseated um Kwatlin Katsy Semiamun Solo territory as well. And for both of us, we wanted our organization to be somehow connected to this place that we grew up on and that we're so grateful for. And so we were honestly like spitballing plant names, if I'm going to be honest. Um and I think Swordfern came up because um it's one of the uh it's one of the oldest plants here. Um it's also whenever you know the two of us would go out and connect with with nature, it would be basically everywhere we were in um North Van or Burnaby or in different parts of the forest in Langley. And they also grow together, like they grow in these groups, and oftentimes you'll see like little like sword fern groves almost where there's just like a bunch of them all on on like a little hillside. And so um we just really like the idea that they grow together. We thought they were like a really beautiful motif as well. Um and it sounded good. Yes, so Swordfern Collective is um based in both Vancouver and Montreal. Um, and we are doing a lot of kind of experimental um community climate engagement. Um a lot of this came out of Victor and I and Erica as well um getting frustrated with how climate was being communicated. Both um all of us have have gone through university, we've taken sustainability classes, and um oftentimes a lot of this knowledge is kind of locked away in the university. Or, you know, you go to like a climate event and sometimes it's uh very stale, or people are talking about things like COP, where you're sort of sitting there and you're like, if you're not an insider, so to speak, it's not accessible. And yet, you know, you have like data coming out from organizations like Reek Climate that are showing that more than two-thirds of Canadians care about climate change and think we should do something about it. And so it's like, how can we take that awareness and that desire to do something and find ways to motivate people to act as well? Because the other thing we've noticed is there's a lot of isolation and there's a lot of, yeah, there's like this fear of of not doing it right as well. Um I get that. Yeah, that comes up in activist spaces all the time. People will often have arguments about not doing things like a certain way. Um, and so we were like, well, what if we create an organization where we just are super weird, we allow ourselves space to make mistakes, and we get really creative with how we talk about climate change. Um, and so we have a really cool event series called The Art of Change, which we started um a couple years ago, and we're on we've just finished our third event in February. And the Art of Change is a way that we bridge um two kind of things that are typically quite stuffy, and those can be like the um the climate space um as well as the arts and culture space. And I know arts and culture can take many forms, but we started with classical music, which in many ways can seem like it's not for everyone. Um, and so our first event we brought in like a string quartet and we did a piece by Caroline Shaw that was all about like a garden at her school and her experience, you know, going through her her program and sitting in this garden and changing, uh witnessing the change in the garden as she herself was changing as well. Um, and it was just this piece of like environmental music that allowed people to you know to get outside of themselves. And we also um sometimes don't market things as a climate event, which is my favorite thing that we do. It's very fun. Sometimes like with that one, we were basically just like come and listen to some music.

Claire 27:42

Yeah.

Paige 27:43

Surprise, now that you're here, we're talking about climate change. Yeah, you know, I love it. Um and so I think the the reason why I love doing work in the arts so much is because you get a lot more buy-in from people. Um, and the arts also have a way of connecting to your emotions that is um so much more powerful than um like reading statistics or um you know climate communicators are always like, How do I get people to care? And sometimes the arts can show you that you already care, whether it's just through evoking a feeling or um even through witnessing a piece of music together or witnessing a piece of of poetry together um in a community setting, that's an incredible experience. And then you're sort of vulnerable as an audience member, and you're like giving yourself like the space to think about climate change. So we do that, we do the art of change. We also do these random um uh smaller events called understory or yeah, understories, which is like where we started doing like our climate collage nights. Um we did the uh Dream City um event in Montreal, which was beautiful, and we had a zine come out of that, and then we also have a newsletter. So, right now our newsletter is sharing um art from young artists from all across Canada.

Claire 29:01

Wow, that's that's a lot really great work. That's so exciting. Um, I love that you sneakily just bring people in to make art together or to like witness art together, and then just are like, yo, like let's talk about big climate feelings. Hello. Hello. Did you have like any whenever you were starting this collective? Like, I'm not sure if you identify them as like your friends or like colleagues, but like when you started this together, were you basing it off of something else, or was it so radical and like innovative? Like had you never seen anything like it?

Paige 29:34

I think it was definitely something that we had never seen. Um, and this was I think the Art of Change series was how Erica first got involved because um she reached out to Victor and I on, you know, slid into the Instagram DMs essentially and said, I really like what you're doing, how can I get involved? And Erica's background is she's a phenomenal um arts and culture professional who's done so much work with organizations around Vancouver. Um, and so she was kind of getting frustrated in some ways with um the way that some, you know, some arts events are being run. They're not necessarily the most innovative or they can get stuck in some patterns. And so um we got some uh funding to put on the Art of the Art of Change series.

Claire 30:12

I think there's that phrase of like make you have to make what you need in a community. Yeah. Is that kind of what the vibe was?

Paige 30:17

Yeah, so I think we we also like this was the first um event that Victor and I had both put on that wasn't a part of like a class project. So we'd both put on events before like for university or you know, we'd both throw in like parties and whatever. But um, this is the first time we'd done like a big public event. And so we just were like, what if we throw everything at it that we can do? So we were like, okay, we're gonna have a string quartet performance. We're also gonna have community dialogue, we're also gonna have a uh the musicians improvise to a silent documentary of community submitted nature footage. And we're gonna ask people to do something participatory. Oh, which some people hate. Which some people hate, and that also wasn't super advertised. We intentionally didn't really advertise it because we wanted to get different people in the room, right? Yes, and so TV again. Um I think that was fun. So we really threw a lot at it. It was um an event where so much could have gone wrong, but gratefully we had some a phenomenal team of volunteers. Um, we had a wonderful uh audience, we had a phenomenal string quartet. They were just they were great to work with and great performers. Um and uh yeah, everything worked out somehow. So wonderful. But that format is something that we've kept where we want it to be um a showcase of of local artists from our community, whether it's in Vancouver or Montreal. We want it to have an element of some sort of dialogue about climate change, and we also want to give people access to the arts. So um for our you know successive events, I would say we've done the particip participatory part a lot better. For our climate poetry event, we um got people to co-create poems with um guest artists from Vancouver Poetry House. And then in our climate choir events, we showcased some phenomenal musicians from uh around Vancouver who were all um guests uh of the Vancouver Opera who were some of our collaborators with that project. Wow. And then we also were like, hey everyone, let's create a climate choir. So I think which so it was like extremely participatory.

Claire 32:43

Are you are you getting these people involved like through just like cold emails and like showing up in their email and they're like, Yes, I want to be involved in this? Are you like paying people? Like, how are you getting such cool big names?

Paige 32:54

Like, yeah, I mean, I think um, first of all, we always pay the artists that we work with. Um that's something that's incredibly important to us. Um, I will say that also, um, some of them are also uh the the organizations we've worked with, like Vancouver Poetry House and the Vancouver Opera. Um, many of the people that work there are our friends. Um Ashley from the Vancouver Opera is a wonderful friend and a big supporter of our work. Um and it was honestly just through conversations that we um really started uh talking about collaborating on something, and the climate choir was something we got really excited about. Yeah, and it just fit so well. And then Vancouver Poetry House um was a group that again, like Victor was had uh been to an event of theirs. So the organizations that we work with are um the last couple times they've been just by happenstance, they've been friends. Um but often it's it's people or organizations who are arts leaders in and around Vancouver, um and that we just honestly want to work with and get excited about working with and think would be um that are also open to doing climate work as well.

Claire 34:04

Yeah.

Paige 34:04

Um that are open to you know working with with youth as well, because oftentimes, you know, these are not necessarily youth-led organizations, and so um they've got to be the right fit. But yeah, we always always pay the artists we work with um and pay them a living wage. Let's hear it for that. Let's hear it for a living wage.

Claire 34:24

I had a question specifically, and I have a really awesome picture from I believe your Vancouver Poetry House workshop. And I was just like curious as someone who maybe can be afraid of expressing like vulnerabilities, like up in front and like around people and being like asked to kind of like let your guard down, and like art making is kind of a form of like letting your guard down. Like, do you ever get some of that kind of I don't want to say like pushback on like people that attend your events, but like how does that does that feel natural? Do you feel like you're a more vulnerable person now that you like lead people into those kind of vulnerability like moments?

Paige 34:54

Yeah, I think that like the way it's transformed me. I definitely allow myself to be more vulnerable in my climate organizing, as well as just you know, you have to be vulnerable to do effective community building and and like to do climate work. You have to be open to to being challenged, and you have to also, you know, put your heart out there as well. Um I think that most people are receptive, I think, um, to to trying something out as well. And oftentimes we try to create a space where you know the spotlight isn't on someone, right? Like um uh especially with the climate choir, the whole thing was that um it was just like uh you know, doing climate work alone and singing alone are both incredibly terrifying and scary. Um, but when you do either of those things together, it's so much more powerful, it's so much more effective, and it's so much more beautiful. And so it's this thing where like you're you're giving people uh a place to be vulnerable in a setting that is you know not meant to be perfect. Like our climate choir was not made up of choral singers. There were some awesome singers there, but it was like you did not have to be a singer to show up. And the same thing with the poetry workshop. Um we uh split people up into small groups, and they were each working with uh the guest artists who they'd seen perform earlier to write these poems where everyone, you know, we try to make it as low barrier as possible. The the poetry workshop was you just have to write one line inspired by a line from the poet that you're working with. And then it all got put together, and that was something that we did not know how that was gonna work out. We're like, this could go super weird, people could not really be into it. Maybe this is people's like first time writing poetry, but we ended up having like this really magical moment at the end of our um our poetry event where uh the poets you know they did their magic and they they put the lines in an order that felt right, and they read them out, and it was just like you it was silent in the room, like it was such a it was like everyone was like just so tuned into what each other was saying. And even though everyone had written their lines separately, uh they'd like created these beautiful pieces, you know. So I think that was like if you create a space where people feel okay getting a little vulnerable and where you make it achievable, like just one line of poetry, or we're just singing a Joni Mitchell song, and no one else really knows how to sing here except for the facilitator, you know, it's like you're you're being a little silly with it too, you know. Humor is a great way to get people to be vulnerable. And I think also um now Erica Victor and I also participate as well. So at an event where we've been up there MCing the whole night, we're now joining you and you know, showing showing you that we're being vulnerable.

Claire 37:47

And so come on up, come on up, do it with us.

Paige 37:51

Come on up, we're we're out here, you know, so just join us and and let's you know, don't don't worry about being perfect.

Claire 37:58

Yeah, that's really beautiful. Yeah, it's really beautiful. You know what's funny, like that makes me think like in terms of like comedy and like vulnerability. I think some people like hide behind comedy instead of being vulnerable. So I really love that perspective of like actually like we can use comedy and silliness as like a form of vulnerability and like expressing vulnerability, yeah.

Paige 38:16

Instead of just being like we can hide behind yeah, well because comedy can kind of lead you into vulnerability, and I think um we had a fantastic facilitator for our climate choir, um, my friend Danny, and he is probably the best example of that where he started with this um he started by you know doing some silly stuff and like getting people to laugh and you know giving people the space to dance um and move around, but it he he brought it all back and um you know he recited that he reminded people that like um he he shared like this you know the classic like Dan Savage quote of um you know like the dance is what we're fighting for and he was like this is this choir is an example of like you know maybe you're not putting a solar panel on a roof right now, but this room is is the kind of future that you want to fight for. Like this community and this like space is is what we're really doing this for in the first place. The dance is what we're fighting for is is beautiful. I think about it so often. It's such a such a good quote. This is a quote from Adam Savage. From Dan Savage, yeah. So it's Adam Savage. I think that that's do you know who that is? I I love Adam Savage as well. I unfortunately Different Savage. Different Savage. No, but it it's um it's talking about like during the AIDS crisis. Um I believe something uh like in the darkest days of the AIDS crisis, you know, we would bury our friends in the morning and dance all night. Um and I'm definitely misquoting it, but it was be you know, it might might have felt weird to dance, but the dance is what you're fighting for. So and that's kind of what we're trying to do at Sword Front is like create these spaces where you're able to dance and rem remind yourself of what it feels like to be joyful and to be in a joyful climate space and you know, have some like time to play and imagine and and make friends and and build a community in like a way that is not like you know, it's not uh a conference, it's not a networking event, it's not um it's not even sometimes explicitly a climate event, but it is something where you can feel, you can learn, and you can um you know experience all the emotions and whether that's the grief or the anxiety or the hope that comes with you know living in a climate crisis and looking to your left and right and seeing people that are also living that with you.

Claire 40:42

Yes, absolutely. I it reminds me of this kind of um idea in psychology of like whenever you're you know going through big complex feelings, um, there's this like principle called rain, which is recognize, allow, investigate, and nurture. And as someone who often would rather just move on to the next thing, I'm often not employing rain to like recognize big feelings. I I don't like to recognize or allow them. Just like let's move on and clean the dishes. Um that's always my go-to. I'm just gotta clean the dishes. Um, but in these like really beautiful events that you're holding for the community, it feels like you're really asking people to recognize feelings, allow them, investigate them, and nurture them in ways of like art making and community being, not just building, but like just being in community.

Paige 41:29

Just being in community. Yeah, exactly. And I think that sometimes even just that recognition is a big first step for people. Because especially for for most people, they might not be able to name what they're feeling as climate grief or climate anxiety.

Claire 41:44

Right.

Paige 41:44

And this might be the first time because it wasn't advertised as a climate event, this might be the first time that they're in a room of people thinking about this and being like, that's that's what it is, that's what I've been feeling, and now I have a name for it.

Claire 41:57

Yes.

Paige 41:58

So sometimes even if that's all someone gets, uh that's phenomenal.

Claire 42:02

Identifying and putting words and vocabulary to big feelings for me and for a lot of people is such a big part of like learning how to not grow from them, like we're not getting away from it, but just like yeah, I guess regulating our nervous systems and reminding ourselves we're not alone, and I think that you're doing a really great job at like making people feel I haven't got to be at one of these events, I just enjoy them from Victoria. But if I could go back in time, I would go to these events and join you and dance and make poetry. I just want to give space for anything that you wanted to talk about, or like mention if you wanted any kind of platform for your messaging, or if there's any big things we didn't get to, or how can folks maybe keep you know staying engaged with Swordfern Collective?

Paige 42:45

Yeah, I mean the best way to stay um engaged with Swordfern is uh through our social media and our Substack, our newsletter. Um that's Swordfernco.substack.com, I believe. At Swordfern Co. on Instagram, Swordfern Collective on LinkedIn, those are pretty much the best places to keep up with our work and see what events we're putting on. Um I think, you know, thinking about the idea of um seeds of hope and and the idea of like what gives me hope as someone who's you know living and breathing this both in my day job and in the work I do at Swordfern. Um like it's been really wild when I think about being a climate activist for more than 10 years. I think that's something that's quite a crazy thing to think. A decade over climate activity? Over a decade, and I'm like, whoa, I'm you know, 26. That feels so crazy. But that's the reality. The reality for young people. And um, you know, over those, over that decade, I think the the biggest things that give me hope is like s most people care about doing something. Like the vast majority of people, whether it's internationally in Canada, they want to do something about climate action. And there's no one way to do action, right? And so don't get caught up in oh, I'm not doing This perfectly just do something and do something with friends because that's what's gonna keep you um keep you taking action and give yourself space to feel absolutely I think that's that's the biggest thing and yeah that that there is so much to be um to say to be excited about is not the right way to put it but there's there's so much to to get involved with right now even just in like creating a joyful space or creating community with your friends you don't have to like do a big climate event even if you just um you know have a block party with your neighbors I would say that in its picnic that a picnic like a picnic is phenomenal like that in itself is climate action you know being in community is climate action you know and that's like that's what's gonna get us through whatever our future might look like that's beautiful all right fade out on that one yeah yeah that's so true that's not like a recurring theme it's just like the importance of community and like being around people and even just like leaving today our conversation I'm already feeling super stoked and hopeful and yeah I just think that it creates like really powerful connections like realizing that there are people that are passionate that are caring and that are doing their best to combat you know climate the uncertainty of the the climate future that we have ahead of us yeah I mean we don't necessarily know what our future's gonna look like but we know that we're gonna be together in whatever that future is.

Claire 45:28

Absolutely dancing dancing dancing dancing together dancing together that's the title episode Paige and Claire are dancing together we should do dance together I'm a terrible dancer. Oh me too you're gonna get some like barbecue like barbecue out of dance today's episode featured Paige Hunter of Swordfern Collective special thanks to our camera operators Britton McCubbin and Emma Cole McCubbin. This podcast was created with support from Tell us Story Hive. Special thanks to Starfish Canada for helping bring this vision to life I'm your host Claire Marshall and this is Seeds of Hope. We'll catch you in the next episode.